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We have a shared space with the qualities of presence I passively saw you while you were browsing and persistence the graffiti will be there for anyone to see. In the metaverse, I open some application on a computer, I look at some window or readout, I see that you're online maybe I just see a light next to a username, or maybe I see your WoW character dancing shirtless outside of Goldshire , I leave something persistent maybe a comment on a blog post, maybe a spray on the wall in an MMOFPS , which is available for you to see at some point.

There are hundreds of metaverses that's nearly the whole point; a metaverse is a virtual space that isn't bound by the rules and limits of physical space, so why not inhabit a few dozen? VR isn't intrinsic to the idea of a metaverse, it's just one potential realization of the idea. Stephenson depicted his metaverse as a virtual space for the sake of the reader's imagination, so that they could envision something real and familiar instead of just a bunch of people clacking away on keyboards.

The "virtual street" metaphor used in Snow Crash was always just a convenient literary device, and not at all the point of the metaverse, which to reiterate is the idea of a virtual shared universe in which to exist that is unbound from the restrictions of the physical universe.

The depiction was as relevant to the WWW as the browser is: the presentation is up to the client, remember that Lynx and Firefox are both perfectly good web clients in principle, we've killed that aspect of the web for the most part by insisting on pixel perfect copies instead of broad rendering hints. But depending on bandwidth and rendering capability of your device you could have the entirety of the gamma ranging from text-only all the way to full immersive 3D and everything in between.

You have the right take here - the Metaverse is basically the internet with a Z axis in the DOM - and anyone is free to do with that as they may. Pokemon Go as a shared overlay of digital world space on to a shared real world space.

The Immersive Embodied Metaverse is available over the internet using open W3C WebXR standards today and this will get better as the space and infrastructure matures. Incidentally, those of us old enough may remember the number of websites having "streets" and "neighbourhoods" in the 90s while people were still trying to figure out how to translate things from offline to online.

Virtual shopping malls where you would "walk" around by clicking around websites. Closi 20 days ago root parent prev next [—]. I think metaverse is just a fancy name for communicating with people online supported by technology both present technology, future technology and meatspace communications supported by technology.

Maybe they want to break the boundaries between your real self as you consume apps like WhatsApp and Instagram , your social profile true self in virtual world like the closed garden in Facebook and the avatar in a world like Second Life. This would be a gold mine, because they already can target ads to you in the real world, so they could do it there too.

Doing it were the people use fake avatars is not so easy. So think that every user is an inhabitant, a citizen, a potential buyer in the virtual and the real world, but also a potential business owner in the virtual world. Business owners will be tax payers that must pay fees to operate on this city-state that will have internal laws that except for few cases at most will not be subject to government laws and constitutional protection, and if you are difficult or problematic the authority will be able to expatriate you without prior notice, regardless of time or money invested in the platform.

Maybe, at most, they could offer arbitration with a company that knows that if they don't favor Meta the contract will not be renewed. So yeah. It is a good idea, if they can pull it. I would classify it as slightly more than communication; a metaverse also has to give you some way to "inhabit" it. Every registered user is an inhabitant, every passerby an observing alien that might convert into an inhabitant at some point. This was my understanding as well. JimDabell 20 days ago root parent prev next [—].

There was a two dimensional interface called Flatland that worked like a CLI. Hiro used it to manipulate the virus without viewing it. I see a lot of assumptions about office worker productivity with zero real world evidence.

A lot of home office workers never learned to touch type. How the heck are they supposed to do office work if they can't see their fingers on the keyboard? Voice recognition is no solution, it still sucks for text entry and is completely useless for anything like slide presentations or spreadsheets.

There is legitimate potential for workers doing 3D stuff like CAD, architecture, and data visualization but that's a tiny niche of the workforce. Like others said, occluding the keyboard into VR is suprisingly capable, especially when combined with touch typing. It works really well, although the resolution is too low for me tooday.

I have seen a video, IIRC it was from SimulaVR, in which the user had a virtual window which showed a camera view facing the real-world keyboard. So this is easy to solve: these people who need to see their fingers on the keyboard and probably everyone else when doing a real-world action like getting a cup with a drink would open a window with an external camera view. Even current gen oculus has a front facing camera. How is touch typing or lack of it related to working in a home office?

Luckily, tracking your physical keyboard in VR has already been a thing for a while, and it has both quite solid third-party[0] and first-party implementations[1] by now. To clarify, when I say "tracking", I don't mean just being able to use your keyboard in VR.

I mean being able to actually see your keyboard in VR, along with being able to see keycaps on the virtual representation of your keyboard. Bringing physical keyboards and other peripherals into VR is just a matter of time though. When I was in college with a time-sharing system, someone as a joke removed all the keycaps from one of the CRTs. Didn't stop me, I'm a good enough touch typist that I just sat down and started using it.

Good typing skills are a super-power in today's world. These days in Teams it will tell you when someone's typing. It amazes me how long people need to type just to get a simple point across.

Sunspark 20 days ago root parent prev next [—]. Why can't you have printed keycaps in VR? The idea was that, not being able to cheat by looking down would help improve my typing faster by forcing me to memorize the keys better. Sunspark 19 days ago root parent next [—].

But why does it matter if you "cheat"? That makes no sense. If you can type 95 wpm using keys with letters on them, then that's all that matters. Your goal is to be able to type effectively, not to type with a handicap. Give it a try! I think part of the plan is to build VR spaces and then connect them together. Take the "things" in that space and expose them to non-vr software clients.

Or you can all sit at home and watch VRTV with friends, but one friend just watches on their phone on the bus. Or a virtaul office desk, that can have coworkers visiting. The office server can be hosted on your corp servers or, the social networking, maybe you self host your personal office , but when you leave to go virtually home, you're now in your home, hosted by fb nee meta.

Absolutely, the idea of a shared virtual office as opposed to just a solitary home office would be a realization of a VR metaverse. Of course, aside from meetings where the whole point is to interact with other people , I think it remains to be seen whether the idea of a shared virtual office is actually something that anyone really wants, or whether it's simply a case of a lack of imagination from people who are so accustomed to the idea of shared office space that they try to shoehorn it into the virtual world without really considering if it makes sense to.

Personally, if I'm going to be working in a virtual space, I'm going to be working somewhere in Earth's orbit, or under a tree on a hill on a rainy evening surrounded by fireflies, and not in a 3D-rendered cubicle. It does not matter because for the public and the media Zuckerberg is redefining the meaning of the word right in front of our eyes. Give it a few years and everybody will believe VR is an inherent feature of metaverse.

Just like those of us who had been using the word "crypto" to mean "cryptography" for decades were trying to explain in vain what the word originally mean - but it made no sense as the new meaning was already popularized. WorldMaker 20 days ago root parent next [—]. Arguably that's probably why Facebook's efforts are doomed to fail before they've even started.

By branding and marketing and tying all of their "metaverse" activities to VR they've already lost in a lot of user mindset. The retrending blog post on the Requiem for the HMD [1][2] is more than enough reason to believe that VR at it exists today, as it existed in when that blog post was written is an albatross that Facebook has now tied around its neck as Meta. People are already dismissing this "metaverse" furor as just more VR hype with a stupider name and the company "Meta" is risking killing the entire term "metaverse" and any usefulness it might have had altogether.

Tear down some of the garden walls, allow a bit more of the old MySpace and Blog anarchy of clashing styles and user control, be a better web citizen.

They aren't likely to do that because they are using "metaverse" as attempt to make more Oculus money and risking the Facebook lock in and walled garden for a vision with actual guts and takes risks doesn't seem to be in their interest. That Requiem for the HMD article has not aged well. All of those issues are a matter of iterative improvements over what we have today, and the devices will be ready for mass adoption. Have you seen the leaked Quest Pro design[1]? It's already close to being ski goggle size, and it's only a couple of generations away from something the size of sunglasses.

Displays are getting cheaper, better and higher resolution. UX is being improved, passthrough cameras already exist. Meta is jumping on the bandwagon early, making their brand synonymous with VR, and betting big that this will change how everyone uses computers today, and that it will be the tech to replace smartphones. I think they're right. WorldMaker 19 days ago root parent next [—]. Whether or not they did their research, whether or not we are just a few iterative improvements away from mass adoption, there's still just too much feeling of "same hype cycle, different day" from the average consumer which is the point of that article, and my implication that VR is dead right now but it was Facebook's lucky albatross so they're tying it around their necks in the hopes it is still lucky while dead [1].

I am pessimistic about this marketing play for "Meta". Cambridge Analytica came along and congress made them decide open was a liability. Sure they were starting to close down before congress, but now they're sure as hell not opening up.

That's not the garden walls to which I refer. I remember trying to program against Facebook even in the pre-Cambridge Analytica days. Sure the APIs had way more data, but it was all still siloed in that only apps that Facebook "vetted" were allowed in, and they were always strict about the CSS and components you were allowed to use and tight on the ways you were allowed to link people outside of Facebook itself.

I don't care if the data is locked down or not, the social graph isn't the interesting part of a "metaverse" and in some ways it is probably better locked up and that can remain Facebook's lock in to keep them interested in the project. The kind of garden walls I was talking about are more federative: bringing external content in, but in ways that are true to the outside content; not just confined to Facebook looks and styles and components, not confined to a bare amount of customization of boring card styles, not embedded in a "Facebook way" but in a "web way" whatever that means, and it doesn't really feel like it means much at all after the imagination and wilds of the s.

I referenced the anarchy and chaos of blogs and MySpace, specifically: it's about user control to "do ugly things", to escape the gray walls and graffiti "their spaces". If Facebook is a "space" today, it's a building full of cubicles all alike. Sure, you can hang photos in the cubicles and they've got colorful stock ones, but your still constrained to just those cubicle walls and they mandate a lot about the allowed size and frame styles. That's almost directly the antithesis of a user owned "metaverse" whether 2D or 3D.

The fact that the definition of the "metaverse" is stipulating so much disagreement and discussion is itself the problem. When smartphones were launched there was a simple description - "oh cool, it's a traditional phone but it has a computer running inside of it? Not a problem. An opportunity. There was a lot of rapid exploration of design space first. The VR boom in the 90s was killed by cost and primitive hardware, but we still have surviving persistent 3d worlds that came out of that wave.

We've also seen a lot of non-VR exploration. Aside from Minecraft, we have Roblox, which while a lot more limited in some ways is also a lot more meta: you have an identity that persists across worlds, with a social layer across that. Minecraft looks to be slowly moving in that direction. We'll see people exploring a lot of other variants, and most will fail.

But in the process we'll start to learn what will work. Maybe they'll manage to buy the winner. This here. How kids use roblox is fantastic to see, they play in worlds they build themselves and share them. I'd say that this is closer to when "the cloud" came about. No one was quite sure what it was, but everyone wanted in.

What is it? When is this idiocy going to stop? It's funny, all I hear now is, "I don't understand it, so it must be useless". The point of "the cloud" was the concept of users not needing to think where their device is communicating. The device might as well be talking to "the cloud" in the sky. The point of "the cloud" was the occlusion to the end user. I don't see much value in the phrase as it doesn't help me know what is going on in any way. I think that's unfair in the context of the time.

There really was a lot of crap talked about cloud this and cloud that back then. We got the giant world-wide networked communication interface decades before we got the virtual-reality side of the metaverse. It turns out connecting billions of humans together on a single network was the easy part! So all the interesting parts of the metaverse going forward are all the VR aspects which is why the discussions are focused on that.

Kiro 20 days ago root parent prev next [—]. I wouldn't be so sure. Bigscreen in VR is amazing. Hanging out inside a virtual cinema auditorium watching stuff together with other random people is way better than I could ever have imagined. I'm sure newer tech can be much better, especially with airflow and an AR set that lets in natural light. We're not there yet, though. I just got to try an Oculus Quest 2 and I was really blown away by how advanced it is, I didn't expect that.

But at least in my case and at my age after a hours of full use when you run out of battery my eyes are really tired and I was scratching them for a few days after.

So, it still need one extra generation at least, probably an "iPhone-like" moment but it's definitely addictive. The Quest gave me persistent "seasickness" after use the first half dozen times I used it this was last winter, I had nothing better to do than see if I could get better at tolerating it. I eventually got more tolerant of it, but after not using it for a while I'm hesitant to pick it up again in case I am back to square one.

During use I could handle stationary scenes okay, but the after-effect was nasty. An incredible piece of technology, though. The VR-sickness persisted for hours until I realized that the solution was to try and reset my system by walking outside and gazing at the horizon which also works on seasickness to a point.

In thirty years there will be a startup that you can get affordable eye replacements. Keep burning those eyes! Also, two words for people sharing VR goggles: ocular herpes. Assume Joe spends 3 hours of TV a night. How much of that time is uninterrupted focused time? While watching TV, I can cook and eat dinner, do a load of laundry, answer email, casually browse the web, feed and let the dog out and at least minimally engage in small talk with family. None of that I can do when fully immersed in VR.

Which is probably why Facebook cares about it. Ads on TV are time to get up, in VR they can fully measure you engagement. Fully engaged in game and hungry, food delivery is one button press away. TV is relaxing. I can turn my brain off and don't need to do anything. The metaverse is just a fancy videogame that big tech companies need to invent so they can monetize another platform and sell more HW.

Sure, if you pay me to work in the metaverse I'll be happy to hang out there. Otherwise I'm not interested. But the metaverse itself is not content.

You would simply watch TV or play a video game while in the metaverse. The reason these VR spaces have not taken off, however, is because the medium to access these VR spaces have been pretty disappointing. When smartphones took off, so did the Internet.

Facebook has not fixed the medium problem as I see it. I have never gotten motion sickness, but I do not want to put on a VR headset for more than a few hours. This is not true, the Internet took off in the U.

Personally, I would say exactly the opposite, the only advantage a smartphone has over a desktop computer for Internet usage is portability, otherwise the experience is worse in every way. And this is probably why facebook won't win. Not Zuckerberg. And youtube has no porn on it. I think the issue with winning it with adult content will remain unchanged, at least for a while.

Porn is so classic, that it cannot tunnel through this potential barrier. Google and Microsoft absolutely serve porn. It's what Bing is known for. People use their Apple devices for porn, controlling sex toys, and much more. Amazon sells lube, sex toys, lingerie, and a whole host of other totally NSFW products. Netflix has a ton of shows with nude actors bearing their breasts.

They're very much the opposite of Tumblr, which died the moment they banned it. Patreon thrives on porn. Steam absolutely sells a whole bunch of porn.

It may not be a majority, but it sells plenty. Since Steam itself launched in , so literally took 15 years, and still in a very limited basis IIUC. And anonymity. See how many are active in VR community under their legal full real names. Some mention their IRL names on social profiles as footnotes, but if they did care, that person is not important in VR. Honestly pre spending time online was pretty niche.

I spent maybe a couple hours a day max on MySpace and LiveJournal and maybe a couple of forums once or twice a week. This was between pirating music and burning CDs for friends in high school which gave me a pretty high score on the nerd-index. I was listening to a podcast on Flat Earthers and the host basically traced the explosion of True Believers to the advent of the smartphone circa onwards; suddenly hundreds of millions more people were spending hours a day online.

If the problem was really just the quality of headsets, you'd expect some dose-response relationship, I think. Headsets may not be good enough, but they're much better than they used to be, so you'd expect SOME stable growth in using it for shared environments Second Life style.

But that hasn't happened. I'm thinking the problem isn't lack of good VR, it's that a truly shared metaverse isn't really something we want. We want our own spaces. When even better VR comes, I think it will be used for far more solitary activities than social ones.

We do see some hints of a dose-response relationship there, with reasonably popular VR games like Half Life Alyx. What are you saying? Lol I could attribute the little use of internet pre to lack of ISP services, or the fact that people preferred html and modern search engines to the old protocols ftp, archie, gopher , etc. But , seriously? I spent lots of hours in internet in college pre-www and later paid for CompuServe. By then www was already becoming known. Again, In what country do you live?

And you should try consuming internet in a desktop or laptop. Even a Chromebook works ok but a gaming PC is better. Most apps offer a limited experience in mobile, or tablet it sucks and seriously, sites render much faster on a fast PC. I can right-click 10 links on the browser, send them to open in the background, consume each tab a close what doesn't work.

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